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The Windsor Town Council reached a consensus at its Dec. 10 meeting to pursue a process that could bring a circa 1927 red Norfolk & Western caboose to Windsor to ultimately be put on display as a tribute to Windsor’s history as a train town.

The caboose, which would be donated to the town, is currently located in Suffolk on Shoulders Hill Road, with the developer of that property likely hoping to see the train car moved soon.

Town Manager William Saunders indicated that the cost of moving and restoring the caboose would definitely reach six figures. Some council members were dissuaded from wanting to pursue the caboose at this time due to that amount. 

However, the council reached consensus around the idea of potentially acquiring the caboose and storing it in a safe place for the foreseeable future while taking the time needed to evaluate the costs of renovation and further movement at a later time.

The council may meet in a special session prior to its next regular meeting to evaluate costs and logistics of the initial move.

Saunders gave an update on the caboose during the Dec. 10 meeting that served as the catalyst for the council’s discussion.

“We finally were able to take a look at the caboose that’s over on Shoulders Hill Road,” he said. “Yesterday afternoon, Mayor (George) Stubbs and I went along with a colleague of mine that has experience with restoration of old vehicles and actually crane work, which would both be involved in this. And we’ve determined that we feel it is salvageable, it is able to be restored.”

Saunders said moving the caboose would be costly and would likely involve a very large crane and a couple of tractor-trailers. 

Regarding the current state of the train car, he said, “There’s extensive rust on the exterior, and the whole interior would need to be gutted and restored to its original state.”

He also noted that the town would likely need to move the caboose a couple of times before it was in its final place of presentation.

“It would likely need to be placed at the location of the company that’s going to restore the exterior,” he added, “because any of the town property we have right now that we could put it on, the blasting and sanding and painting and welding and grinding that would be required would be too impactful to adjacent residences…”

He stated that the new development that exists around the caboose at its current location in Suffolk already has sewer lines, water lines and storm drains in place, which means the developer will want the caboose removed from that site soon.

“(The development is) very close to being finished with the site work, so I don’t think that the developer would be interested in us taking a whole long time to do (a Request For Proposals) to figure out who’s going to do the work on the exterior (of the caboose) before we move it,” Saunders said. “So we’re likely going to have to incur the cost to move it twice — once to get it off of his site to somewhere temporary, do an RFP on the exterior work, and then move it to that site. Hopefully somebody’s shop is going to take on the work.”

He noted that some informal estimates were made on what transportation and restoration might cost. 

“To move it twice, you’d be talking about tens of thousands of dollars, likely,” he said. “And so we’re going to get some estimates on the cost to move.”

He indicated that a full restoration of the caboose would include returning the exterior to prime condition.

“The inside would have to be totally gutted, and you’d have to find plans from old ones and rebuild the interior to original,” he said. “So you’re definitely talking about six figures to get it completed. 

“So I don’t know how much of an appetite council has for something like that, but in fairness to the developer, if it’s going to be a ‘No,’ we should probably let him know as soon as possible, and if it’s going to be a ‘Yes,’ we’re going to need to plan probably to move it twice before it’s going to its final display location,” he said.

Councilman David Adams opened council comments on the matter by noting that Smithfield embraces its pig production history.

“I think as a train town, we should embrace the train history that we have here, and an opportunity to procure this (caboose) and then display it in town, tying into that history, I think is something we should definitely entertain,” he said.

Councilman Edward “Gibbie” Dowdy asked if options existed in town for a final location.

“One of the earlier concept plans for the new Town Hall on the property behind the police department showed a circular entrance in front of it with a train car on display in the middle of the front of the Town Hall,” Saunders said. “So I thought that was interesting. That was from maybe 2012 when they were looking at something like that.”

Then Saunders provided a brief list of options, including that one.

“The vacant lot next to Centennial Park would be a possible location,” he said. “Of course, the property we have on Bank Street is town-owned property there, or somewhere next to the police department on (U.S. Route) 460 up at the road there or incorporated somehow in the layout of the new Town Hall location would be four potential areas that we could display it in town.”

Dowdy said, “Is there a possibility we could set it over where our shop is by the water tower to do the refurbishing?”

Saunders said, “I would say no, because there’s a well there, and it’s an environmentally sensitive area with the well there.”

However, Saunders said he did not think it would be a problem to put it there temporarily inside of the fence until the town is able to get someone to restore it and have it moved to them while they undertake that process.

Saunders said that once the exterior is fixed, the town could move the caboose to its final location while work continues on the interior.

Councilman Walter Bernacki said he is not insensitive to the train history branding, but he said that right now, he thinks the caboose is more of a want than a need.

“Looking at population growth in the shorter term, next three to five years, we may reach that (population) number that we had talked about, that’s why we’re looking at (building) the new Town Hall,” he said. “I think if (the caboose costs) would have been maybe $30,000, $50,000, OK maybe you could sell me on that, but with all the restoring costs and moving it twice and we could be $100,000-plus or more, I just would rather see that in a new Town Hall right now.”

He suggested starting a reserve account in the future and building it up for use if another opportunity to acquire a train car arises, and possibly a train car in better condition.

“For the cost and the logistics of it right now, I’d rather see us invest in our employees who need a little more space and a little more efficiency in the town,” he said.

Councilman Marlin W. Sharp asked if it would be possible to procure private funds to help with the caboose costs.

“Oh, we can certainly fund raise for the work,” Saunders said.

Councilman Jake Redd also noted that tourism grants might be available.

Then Saunders pointed out that the option existed to split up the decision-making process on the caboose over time.

“You wouldn’t necessarily have to dedicate your willingness to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on it to get it,” he said. “We could get it and secure it and at least seal it from the elements to be able to acquire it out of the way of the developer. And then you’ve got it. Just get it to where rain is not getting inside of it anymore. And then you’ve got time to figure out what you want to do, fund raise, whatever, and then you can decide whether to go forward or give it to somebody else.”

Dowdy asked if the town was evaluating a purchase or if the caboose was going to be donated.

Saunders said, “Right now what we’re talking (about) is, they’re willing to donate it to the town and effectively they’re the ones to right off the donation against our taxes, as long as the town pays all the costs of moving. That’s where we are right now.”

Vice Mayor J. Randy Carr said, “I would like to see, in an email to us, what a projected cost would be to move it and try to secure a place that we can set it. And then we’ve got three years, four years, five years, whatever the case might be. At least we’ve got it.”

He later added, “Like what Walter’s talking about, we’re saving money and not spending money right up front to do a restoration.”

Adams offered a final plea to move forward with acquiring the caboose.

“This is something I want, but we spent $50,000 on engineering costs for a Town Hall we may or may not build,” he said. “If this is a $20,000 move for something we may or may not do, I think it’s worth the investment. … It’s donated to us. All we’ve got to do is move it from where it is. I understand the logistical (concerns), where we’re going to put it, I’m sure that the seven of us can figure that out.” 

Carr said, “It might be more difficult putting it somewhere just to store it than what you think.”

“Maybe, maybe,” Adams said. “But my plan tomorrow is to reach out to the county and say, ‘Hey, is there a spot on the fairgrounds where we can put that? Is there somewhere we can put this temporarily while we work out the RFP?’ That’s what I recommend.”

Carr, Redd and Sharp all noted that they agreed.

Stubbs indicated that the council did not need to vote on the matter.

“It’s just a consensus that the town manager try to get in contact with people, whoever we’re going to try to get to move this thing, that next step, and contact the people that have got it,” he said.

Saunders said, “If we don’t want to have to wait another month to have a vote on this, I can do something up to $20,000 without bringing it to you all. Is that basically what the consensus is?”

“Without bringing it to us for a vote, yes,” Carr said, “but I still would like to know what the price is.”

Redd said, “I have a feeling it’s going to be a little bit more than that, but that’s just off my gut feeling.”

But Redd made clear he is in favor of moving it.

“I think that if nothing else, it would give us the time,” he said. “I think it definitely has the opportunity for fund raising, potentially a grant and just something to move forward with, because I think it’s a great long-term investment, really. Even if we can’t get it together now, if we’ve got the opportunity now just to get it and store it.”

To the council, Saunders said, “So either you need to authorize me to do a certain thing now, or we would maybe just have to hold a work session or special meeting once we’ve got the numbers together.”

Bernacki said he thought a special meeting or work session would be better, allowing council members to have their questions about costs and logistics answered.

“William, will you let the developer know we are interested?” Adams asked, and Saunders replied, “Alright, will do.”